SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Beat the Prosecution, presented by Northern Virginia criminal defense and DUI lawyer Jonathan Katz, where we are here to regularly present you information and ideas for beating your prosecution as best as possible. Nothing on any of our media sources, such as our podcast or website, is legal advice. John Katz only provides legal advice to current clients or for individuals who have paid for a consultation. And now for your host, John Katz.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Hello, everybody. This is John Katz to beat the prosecution. I'm a criminal defense and DUI defense lawyer in Northern Fairfax, Virginia. The reason I am not saying that I'm excited to have the guests on that I have today is that uh my guest, uh Basho Atala, how do you pronounce your last name?

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Atala.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

I had it right. Basho Atala should not even be here with us today. Also, uh his formal first name is how do you pronounce your first name?

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Bashir, you're formally Bashir, yes, formally Bashir.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

And he is here with his uh lawyer and sister Celine Atala, but they are here because he he and his wife went through an ordeal that nobody should have to. Uh, he's a U.S. citizen, and even if you're not a U.S. citizen, you shouldn't have to. The name of this show is Beat the Prosecution, but part of beating the prosecution is having a total commitment to justice, not just saying, hey, uh meet the client, get their money, and uh get him in and out. And with that, uh Bashir, please introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Hello, my name is Bashir Ratala. I'm a real estate attorney out of Massachusetts. I was born in Lebanon, the Middle East. I have been uh living in the United States for more than a quarter of a century, 25 years, been an attorney for 10 years, and been a citizen for almost 13 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

And uh please give a plug for your law firm. What's your URL? What town is your law firm in?

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Atala Law Firm, LLC, and it's out of Methuan, Massachusetts.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Is that in the Boston area, I think?

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Yes, like 30 minutes north of Boston.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

And I went to college at Tufts University outside Boston.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

There you go. Yep. Everyone knows Boston.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yes. And Celine, please introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

My name is Celine Atala. I'm an immigration attorney and the sister of Bashir. I've also uh represented cases involving uh Americans held hostage in authoritarian regimes, and I've worked closely with our administration and Congress to bring our American citizens back home. And what's baffling is seeing that whatever I've seen in these authoritarian regimes happened to my own brother. So it hits home to me now, and this case means a lot to us, and thank you for shedding light on this because it's not only about my brother, this can happen to any one of us.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Uh yes, indeed. And as I said, Bushir as a citizen. So before we go uh to Bosho, Celine, what is your URL and where is your office located?

SPEAKER_01 3:14

My office is also located in Methuin, Massachusetts. It's Atala Law Group, LLC. And uh yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

You practice together? Am I missing something?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

No, it's in the same building. We have different offices. We're not associated together. He does uh real estate, I do immigration law, and as I mentioned, other cases also uh involving Americans unlawfully detained overseas, but it's in the same building, and it's a little confusing because we have similar uh office names.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Just out of mere curiosity, since French is my second language, do both of you speak French?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I mean, uh I we do I do speak French. It's now broken because it's been a while, but in Lebanon, people speak French and English, so a lot of people speak French. So I still understand it, I still speak it, but and uh not not uh fluently, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

But I take it that Arabic I I speak a little better than she does.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

And I take it that Arabic is more popular than French in Lebanon.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Yes, it is, it's the first language.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Okay, now Basho, please uh take us through your ordeal uh that you and your wife went through.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

All right, so it was um bomb Sunday weekend. Uh we had a couple meetings at work, couple closings. I finished up, uh wrapped things up early. I left around uh left Methuen going up to Montreal, Canada, around two o'clock. I got to the Canadian borders um through Vermont uh Highway. I believe it was Highway 83, if I'm not mistaken. Obviously, they asked for our passports was the purpose of the visit, and um they were professional and nice, but then they kindly asked me to uh pull aside enter the building. I entered the building. Uh they took, I gave them both my passports and my wife's passport. Uh it took them like 30 minutes, 45 minutes, and they told me Bienvenue au Canada. Welcome to Canada. I said, Thank you. Do you mind me asking what's the issue? Is there any problem? Is there anything I should be concerned about? Because it took you some time. They said, No, you're cleared on our end. You might want to check with your government. So at that point, I knew something something's up uh when I come back to uh the states. Uh Sunday we attended church with our cousins. Uh, we went to the Montreal port. We had some fun around 4:30, I would say 3:30, 4 o'clock. We head back home. We got to the Vermont borders. I pulled up to the booth. I was still in my car. The officer asked for uh passports. I started by handing mine first. Then uh he told me both passports. I said, okay, here's my wife's passport too. He asked me what else he got coming from Canada besides the coffee you have next to you. I said, I have some food, uh, some Lebanese alcohol and some peanuts. He said, Okay, roll down the back windows. I did unlock your vehicle. I did put it in park. I said it's already in park, shut your car off. I did, hand me the keys. I gave him the keys through the window. Then at that point, he asked me to exit the vehicle. Now, me being an attorney, um, he better have a good reason for him to pull me out of my vehicle. So I asked him, uh, what's what's the problem? What's what around this line, like, what's up, what's going on? What's the problem? He asked me again, like, exit your vehicle right now, and he reached for his gun. So I told him, Okay, I'm exiting, keep your gun at your waist. I exited the vehicle. Uh, they directed me to walk behind the vehicle where I was met by five other CBP officers. One of them was shouting at me. She said, Turn around, put your hands in the ear. And another officer came up at the down quickly and handcuffed me. And I was uh as I turned around, I locked eyes with my wife. She's in the vehicle, and she's kind of giving me a gesture like, Brief, take it easy, you know, everything's gonna be fine. Like, don't do anything crazy. But okay, I mean, what am I gonna do? I was cooperating 100%. We walked inside the building as we're walking in there, shoving me a little bit, and I said, Listen, I have a back injury. He said, Okay. Uh, we kept going down the hall to the left. There's uh there's a room to the left. They uh they you know made they made me face a wall. They uh they took my belt out, they're searching me, took my watch out. Then he made me take my shoes out with my uh, you know, I'm handcuffed, and I told him I have a back injury, it's gonna take me some time. So uh I actually had to bump my head through the wall, like not through the wall, into the in wall, like by the wall just to kind of support my body to take my foot off my shoes. And then uh he started going through my uh uh pockets. Um this was given to us by the church. Uh this resembles when Jesus uh entered Bethlehem. So that's that's something holy. So he asked me, What is that? I said, It's from my church, it's holy. He threw it on the floor.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

I asked him, please. I asked him, please pick it up. He didn't answer. Uh four fonts go by after he's done searching. He's like, Okay, now we're gonna put you in this holding cell, we're gonna take your handcuffs off. I said, Before you do that, can you please do me a favor? He said yes. I told him, pick it up from the floor. That's holy. At that point, he picked it up after four or five minutes. I entered the holding cell. It's a cell I would say maybe eight by nine feet, or maybe eight by yeah, eight by nine feet, freezing cold. There's a half a wall for a half of privacy for uh a toilet and a faucet, cold water only. And uh they took my shoes off, and it's a steel door. Basically, it's a whole thing cell. You can only see what's outside through like a small window. I would say an eight by ten inch window, eight by eight window. You can barely yeah, you can barely hear anything. So two minutes go by. I see my wife coming through. She, you know, went through the same thing. They handcuffed her, they searched her, then they put her in a room that is across from mine. There's a hallway between us. Um, so we kind of like exchanged looks, we're telling each other like you know, through the window, thumbs up, like things are gonna be okay. Just kind of like giving each other, uh encouraging each other. Twenty minutes go by, the CBP came back. I knocked on the door, I believe, if I remember, or he came back just to check on me. He asked me, You're okay. I shook my head sideways. I said, No, I'm not okay. He said, What do you need? I said, Call my attorney. He goes, No, attorney, have a seat. I said, Okay, then call me call me an ambush. He's like, Why? I was like, my chest is you know hurting me, and my head is pounding. Is that okay? You know, uh medics are on their way, everything's gonna be fine. I said, Okay, well, you gotta call my sister. You know, you gotta call someone. Like, okay, give me her number, I'll call her. I gave her a number. It was around, I gave them her number. I would say it was around like 5 30 or 6 o'clock. That was the first time I gave them her number. Uh medics show up. Uh I went inside, checked my vitals, checked my pressure. Turned out that I had abnormality in my heart rate, and my uh my pressure is 151 over 113, which is extremely high.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

That's high.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Uh so uh, yeah. So medic uh said, You gotta come with us. This is uh this is not looking good. I looked at the CVP officer, you know, like to see what he thinks. He told me, even if you go with them, you're coming back here, and we're gonna start all over again. So I told Medic, uh, no, I'm not going. Then he said, Okay, let me call the doctor and got back to you. He stopped outside, called the doctor. He came back, he said, Listen, the doctor said you're really gonna have to come with us. I mean, it's they can't make me, but I strongly recommended to come with us because if you maintain this pressure, you're actually risking a stroke and heart failure. And it does say that on the medical records that I have. I said, No, I'm not I'm not going, I'm not gonna leave my wife behind. I mean, if I go, how long is it gonna be? I mean, I'm I'm gonna start back from scratch, so I'm not gonna just go and leave my wife here. What is she gonna do? You know, I'm just gonna take the chance. He kind of looked at me, he felt sorry for me. He's like, Listen, anything happens, just have them call us. We'll be here in 10 minutes. I know you're away from home, you're Canadian, right? I said, No, sir, I'm not Canadian. I'm an American citizen and I'm an attorney. So he kind of looked at the CBP officer. No words were exchanged, but I could tell on the on his face he was surprised, like, what the hell's going on? Okay. Then he left. Um then uh I I asked the CBP again, did you call my attorney? He said, Yeah, we called her twice, she didn't answer. That was around six o'clock. Around again, I'm saying six or seven, I'm estimating, sir. I mean, I did not have my phone with me. I'm just estimating, okay?

SPEAKER_04 12:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

An hour goes by. Um, I hear I hear little noises outside, and I uh see a female officer.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

We're having a little bit of freezing periodically with you. Is that your phone? Pick up where you are, uh Basho. No.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Do you see freezing, Celine? She's good.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

She's dynamic. No, I'm cold. You want to see if we can get back Bosho.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Uh the connection. Sorry. Okay, now we're good, Bosho. I think where we uh got a little frozen up was when you were uh when you were talking about what happened after the Canadian doc after the doctor uh uh looked at the uh CBP officer uh uh not not understanding why uh you were being held if if you're a U.S. citizen.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Yes. Yes. So at that point, uh they left. And uh did you catch the part where he asked he thought I was a Canadian? Did you catch that part?

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yes, that part trying to call Celine.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Yeah, so they said no. We called her twice, she didn't answer. I said, Okay, please. Well, next time you call her, leave a voicemail. It's a Sunday, I don't think she's gonna answer. Uh, he said, Okay. Then out I uh maybe like 30 minutes or 45 minutes go by, I hear some noise in the hallway, and I look through the window. I see an officer talking to my wife through the window, and my wife is crying, and I see her mascara under her eye, and she's telling her, I'm dizzy, I'm feeling dizzy. She's like, Do you need an ambulance? She's like, No, I'm cold. She's like, Do you need to eat anything? She's like, No, I'm cold. So I knocked on the door. I was like, Get us a jacket, get her a jacket and get me a jacket, get us jackets. She said, Okay. She came back, she didn't get me anything, but she got my wife a plastic uh cloth. It's something you you know you cover a table with. It's anything, it's gonna make you even colder. She said, she said, here you go. That should be warm enough for you. That's all we got. You know, on the way out, I did see they have warm blankets and pillows, just to let you know that. Wow. So that's all they gave her. Then I knocked on the door again. Yeah, a CVP came back. He's like, Did you call my attorney? Did you call my sister? They said, Yeah, we called her. She didn't answer again. Twice we called her. I said, Okay, so what that would have been four times already. Uh then what um uh as another CVP officer came. He's like, Okay, you we need a code for your pet for your phone. I said, uh, okay, what for? He said, We're gonna search it. It's what I was like, no, why did he detain me for it? Like, we we're just doing our job. No answers. Yeah, I said, Okay, okay. I'll give I'm I'm willing to give you two things. Uh, you can't go through my wife's pictures, and you cannot go through my work email. And he's like, and why is that? I was like, Are you married? And he started laughing. He's like, No, I'm not married. I was like, Well, it's obvious why you shouldn't go through my wife's pictures. He's like, What about your work email? I said, I'm an attorney, and this is work email, and uh this information is protected under attorney client privilege. He said, Okay. He left and he came back, I would say, an hour later. Uh, once he came back, he's like, Okay, listen, uh, did you uh uh I asked him, actually, did you call my sister? He's like, Yeah, we called her twice again, she didn't answer. So that's six times already. Now, Celine, by the way, when I'm when I'm done, she can qualify how many times they called her and what time. Right. So he came back, he said, uh, you know, why don't you just tell us what items you don't want us to go through in your work email? I said, sir, the whole thing. It's like no, just point it out to us. I mean, just tell us what items not to go. I was like, listen, the whole email is protected, it's journey cloud privileges. There's like 40, 50,000 emails. And he kind of looked at me and he's just quiet. I was like, by the way, how long can you hold me here for legally? Legally. He said, as long as the investigation is ongoing. My God. I said, okay, and and a week before that incident, I was watching YouTube channels because it was all over the YouTube. They actually, CBP or ICE or someone detained an American citizen for 23 days, thinking he's not a citizen and having a fake passport.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

I read that I read that yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

I'm not staying here for 23 days. Yeah, I'm not staying here for 23 days. I'm not, especially my wife. I'm not keeping her for 23 days. So I was like, I have to give in at some point. I mean, it's the government you're up against. I said, okay, I'm willing to give you what you want, but as long as you go to my presence, you know, look through my phone, through my with my and my presence. He's like, no, obviously, we cannot do that. Wow. I said, uh, well, what else you got besides this besides this email? He's like, uh, that's all we got, sir. Just your email, and we should be good to go. So basically, he gave me the impression. Either way, I'm giving him my access to the email ads because he's either gonna seize my phone, I know that for a fact. He's either gonna seize my phone, keep it for days, weeks, years, or maybe I'll never get my phone back, or I have to give in. So at that point, reluctantly and under duress, I gave them permission to go through my email. And he made me sign a statement stating that I, attorney Bashir Rutala, give officer whatever his last name was, permission to go through my phone, and I signed it. Uh then ten minutes later, they came to him. They said, We spoke with your sister. Five minutes later, he's like, Attorney Atala, I was like, Yep. He's like, Okay, you're you just exit. You know, he gave me my shoes, my belt. I said, What's going on? Why did you guys talk me? He's like, uh, we don't know. Like, what do you mean you don't know? You just took my freedom away for five hours. You don't know why you start, you know, you just don't want to tell me. He's like, Well, you know, maybe you should get a. I said, Listen, I'm one of you guys, you know, right? I'm an attorney, my sister's an attorney, my father is a retired chief of state police. Yeah, we're on this side, not that side. He's like, Yeah, we saw, we saw your pictures, we saw the information. He's like, Okay, so what's the deal? He's like, Well, get you know, I advise you to get a redress number. I said, I already have that. He said, Okay, well, did you file a FOIA? I said, I filed a FOIA request. He's like, I don't know what to tell you, it's the government, we're just doing our job. Yeah, so they took me up front where I had I saw my wife, and my wife, I mean, she can speak for herself, she's not here right now because she's still stressed. But she told me when when you know when how was how I was giving her gestures, like you know, I would blow her a kiss, she'd give me thumbs up, they would smile at each other through that small window.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

When they saw us doing this, they took her away. When I came, I asked them where's my wife. They said she uh she's somewhere else in the building. When she asked about me, they said, We don't know where your husband is.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

My gosh.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

So she was freaking out. She was this to this. She thought America, John, she she called America home for four years. Yeah, now she's saying she wants to leave because she had never expected this would happen to her. She asked, Where's my husband? Like, we don't know. Okay, do people sleep here? They said, Well, most likely you will not be sleeping here, but we do not know about your husband. That's what happened with her. So when around nine o'clock, we were actually sent to nine, nine ten, nine fifteen. We went up front where you know there was other people, it was warm. I saw my wife finally gave her a blanket, and I was able to, you know, they gave me children, gum, and they said, Okay, you'll be out of here. Take us another hour. Then they gave have a safe. That's it. That's my story. I don't know. I still didn't till now, I do not know why I was stopped. I don't know, I was I was handcuffed, almost fired at, shot at, uh, humiliated in public in front of my wife, uh out on the street, you know, uh handcuffed, feeling like a criminal, and while me being an attorney.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Okay, well, not okay, of course. Before we get to Celine, I have some details, Bass. Have we already said what CBP is? Um For for the audience that's customs and border protection.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Right? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

CVP stands for customs and border protection. Yes. Now, as you were entering Canada, uh in retrospect, you realize that there was already a flag that the Canadian uh uh border authorities or or Canadian government authorities had uh about you, but uh the Canadians decided not to tell you that Celine, you can jump in if you want.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

So would you like me to answer this, John? I was clear on the Canadians.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

I I was cleared with the Canadians. They said you're cleared with us. Welcome to Canada.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

I'm assuming they probably the Americans flagged me and like, hey, watch out from this guy. So the kid the Canadians they had to do their job, just little due diligence, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, and they said, Welcome to Canada. Asked, what's going on? Like, well, check with your government on the way back. What does that tell you?

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Exactly. So when you bring your lawsuit, you'll do your discovery, uh, and there are gonna be all sorts of uh refusals to answer or objections based on national security, etc. But how much does this come down to brass taxes? This was uh I don't know if you know this was just profiling based on your uh your national origin, uh coming from the Middle East or anything along those lines.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Possibly, and you know, I think maybe they confused me with my sister, because my sister is a tigress, she's an immigration attorney. Maybe they confused me with her. I don't know. You don't look like her. We don't it's the last name.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

All right. Well, I I I also ask you, um didn't I did I read correctly in the media, Boscho, that you were actually a supporter of Trump at some point, or at least preferred him over Biden?

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Yes, I did. I voted for him.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Has that changed at all now?

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Yes, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Okay. Now also, um uh you were talking about uh saying to the uh uh CPB guy guys that are CBP guys, you know, I'm one of you and all that. Uh is is is that meaning that uh you had maybe more faith in in these law enforcement authorities than you should have before your ordeal?

SPEAKER_03 25:03

I went through police academy in the state of Maine, but I'm an attorney. I mean, I just mentioned I'm a lawyer, I'm a law-abiding citizen, I come from a law family, my sister's an attorney, my father is a retired chief of state police, right? You know, I do have a couple pictures in uniform on in my phone in police uniform. You know? I mean, I went through police academy like years ago. But the thing is, mostly when I mean I'm one of you guys, that means I'm a lawyer, I'm a lawmaker, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

And uh I thought I read when your story first came out that one of the uh heads of the uh CBP uh claimed that uh you are exaggerating and that it wasn't as bad as that. And uh my view of it is if there's that claim, has the CBP come out more than just making that sweeping claim uh denial? And and uh this is by someone who wasn't there anyway.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

John, I would like to answer this actually.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Yes, because uh yeah, I it's really baffling what CBP said. Instead of apologizing, instead of uh, you know, trying to correct this and uh trying to see, you know, how to make things better. Um what's uh very disappointing is them saying that my brother's account was blatantly false and uh sensationalized. I mean, my brother almost died based on their own medical record. It's written that he was at high risk of a stroke and a heart failure. And that's stationalized, and they called it routine. I want to ask every American citizen listening to us right now: is it routine to be just coming back home to your country and be handcuffed, humiliated, abused, separated from your wife, having your own wife handcuffed too? No rights whatsoever, no right to be even questioning what's going on, telling you that they're gonna call your lawyer, but they don't call your lawyer up until three hours afterwards, and and pushing you to a brink of a heart attack. Is that routine, is that what we call routine nowadays in America? Is that what America stands for? Is would you feel safe? Is that routine to you? This is this is the question for every American citizen hearing us right now. It started with the undocumented, then it went after the documented people, and now it's going after us Americans. And they had the audacity to call this routine protocol.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

And furthermore, furthermore, when the CBP sees that uh that Bosho is uh so well educated, so articulate, and this is someone who's not gonna keep silent about it. Uh, imagine what they're doing with the people who they think uh are voiceless and aren't gonna speak up and aren't gonna bring a lawsuit.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Exactly, John. And this is why. Someone's gonna have to speak. This is exactly why we're speaking out, because my brother's a lawyer, I'm a lawyer. We're blessed enough to have you shed light on this. How many people are suffering in silence, and how many people are terrified to speak out. Even you know, when it comes to uh immigrants, they're scared to speak out if something happened like this to them. And even sadly speaking, is that many dual nationals, you know, American, naturalized Americans, are also scared after our unfortunately our president says that he's going to also be deporting American citizens and sending them to some jail. So the reason why we're speaking out right now is because we love America. We are proud Americans, and we need to make sure that you know that that what America stands for stays the same. This is what we believe in. And it's not only about my brother, it's about every one of us. This can happen to any one of us. That's why we're speaking out.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Yeah, and and here I am. I thought it was bad enough, even though I knew it was legal when I was driving back from Las Cruces, New Mexico many years ago to Albuquerque to leave uh to come back home the next day. There was a border patrol checkpoint about 50 miles into the U.S. border, and and they're they're stopping everyone and asking about their citizenship. Uh, well, that pay number one, that's been confirmed legal by the Supreme Court, but at least that's out in the open and that can happen everybody. That's night and day between my experience and what happened with Bosho. Celine, so how many calls did you really receive uh from the authorities?

SPEAKER_01 29:27

I only received, actually, I received uh a missed one missed call around exactly 8 51 p.m. So when when they first uh uh arrested my brother, I want to call this an arrest. That's not uh like a that's that's that's legally speaking, this is an arrest for us. But my brother, as soon as he was arrested, you know, he actually asked for them to call me immediately.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Around 6 p.m. And I didn't receive a call except at 8 51 p.m. And I have that voice message because they left me a voice message and hear that, John. The voice the voice message that they left me didn't say that, oh uh that uh your brother is asking for you to call as his lawyer. No, the voice message actually said, like this is officer so-and-so. Your brother wanted us to tell you that he is safe and he will be with us for a little while.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

He did not want them to tell me that he is safe. My brother was dying, you know. He was under they had ambulance coming to him, like the the uh paramedics. He was in terrible condition, asking for his attorneys, his rights were stripped away from him. He called for help. He didn't call just to tell me that he's safe. So that was misleading in it uh in itself.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Well so Celine, did you speak with anyone, uh, any of the authorities before your brother got released?

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Uh I called back immediately after uh listening to that voice message. I mean, I the uh you know, I I I mean I called back, even though I thought that maybe yes, he's fine and all, but so I called back and I told them, I'm like, this is you know, this is attorney Sinatala, I'm the sister of attorney Bashiratala, his wife is a lawful permanent resident, I'm her lawyer too, you know. Right. So what's going on? They don't give you any answers. They're like, well, file a G28. I'm like, there's a G28 because I'm the lawyer for his uh for my sister in lawyer. So so I'm like, uh I want uh uh I'm like what's going on? They're like uh they didn't give me any answers. I'm like, okay, please make sure he gets released soon because this you guys got the wrong person, you know. This person, you know, he's a lawful American, uh lawful like abiding, law law abiding American citizen. He's an attorney, his wife is a lawful, you know, lawful permanent resident. So I hope you just got released him soon. They're like, okay, and then they hung up and then afterwards they talked to my brother and got them out. But the point is, John, what's baffling is that me, I didn't know when I spoke with them, I thought, okay, it's maybe normal. They just uh I didn't even know how long he's been there for because based on that message, and when I called them back, when my brother left with his with my sister-in-law and they called me FaceTime and told me the story on their way back, I was terrified. I could see my brother's face, and I even told my sister-in-law, please make sure you go stay in a hotel or something. I mean, it was late at night. I'm like, if anything happened, call 911 because I was very worried about my brother. He wasn't, he was still not feeling well. And my sister-in-law was crying. My sister-in-law is the most innocent person you'll ever meet. She's a lawful permanent resident, she loves this country. And like my brother said, for the past four years, she called America home. She asked me, she's like, Is this what happens in America? That's what she told me over FaceTime. And I was I was ashamed to tell her, like, what I'm gonna say. Oh, you uh this this happen this is happening now in in America, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

So now, Celine, of course, if your brother, if your brother was not a US citizen, if he was a permanent resident, for instance, I could see the possibility that he was being investigated, uh, maybe for uh guilt by association with you, uh, unless he's totally exaggerating, but that wasn't the the circumstance. I mean, do you think you had anything to do with it that uh they're investigating him? But that that was still a big uh uh uh a big mistake uh doing that to US citizen.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Yeah, no, I I don't think it has anything to do with me. Actually, my brother can tell you. My brother was subjected before to secondary inspections, which is normal. But it was happening uh too much for my brother to a point where I even thought that this is the it became a harassment. But now recently, what happened with my brother is is an abuse of power. It's uh it's a a flagrant violation of the laws, even if they want to name it or or uh name it like that's okay under national security. No, this crossed the line. You know, this crossed the line. The last time what happened at the Canadian US border crossed the line. We are okay with secondary inspections sometimes because as Americans also we want to be safe, we want to make sure that the right people are entering back, all these things. But what happened to my brother Leslie, this is not national security. This is a clear abuse of power. And I feel that CBP, because of the rhetoric that unfortunately, sadly, our administration is doing, they feel that now they are above the law. They're not above the law. You know, our constitution does not get wiped away uh uh at the border. You know, we they do have expanded authority, but they don't have a black check.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Okay, Bosho, you had secondary inspections. I've only had one secondary expansion when I was coming back from Korea just because I preceded my wife and son and I was a male traveling alone. So aren't these secondary wouldn't these secondary inspections not be as common if you weren't an Arab American? Am I just speaking now?

SPEAKER_03 34:51

I hate to speak this way. No, I hate to speak this way, John, but you know, I think it's true because I did, I also saw on the news where they stopped a Muslim or an Arab Muslim chief of police, a retired chief of police who served this country. He was in France to celebrate with his mother her birthday. She's like 85 or what have you. On his way back, he was subject to secondary. They uh there's another attorney who's Lebanese American out of uh Detroit, Michigan. They also stopped him. I believe he was representing someone uh who was detained by uh because she was protesting uh for pro-Palestine. I hate to say it this way, and I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like, yeah, maybe because I'm an Arab, although I'm Christian, I'm not Muslim, you know, it doesn't really make any difference to me. I don't know how many people this point, John. Till this point, John, I really find want to find out why. Like, like really, why I'm not over it yet.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

And if you said something about whether a person is Christian or Muslim, of course.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it shouldn't. Uh uh equal rights for everyone. That's that's why people emigrate to this country to begin with. To have freedom. So no one, so you don't feel inferior to someone else. It's not an upper tight state, it's America. Where are our values? And you said something about Trump. I don't know if he was joking when he said this, when he said he wants to uh just start deporting American, uh, American people to different countries. I didn't watch that. I I heard this a couple of times, but he needs to remember that his wife is also an immigrant, right? She was born somewhere else, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah, well, what's going on with that? Uh Basho is uh Trump's interested in uh in uh uh contracting out uh imprisonment of uh even U.S. citizens convicted here overseas, because that's cheaper, and then they have no Bill of Rights protection there. That's not gonna pass constitutional muster. And uh and and and the other one was of course, uh he he wants to uh narrow down uh what what do you call what a natural-born citizen is, so that if a person is born in the U.S. to uh people who aren't in the U.S. uh lawfully that they can uh be not considered the U.S. that's uh that's his two focuses right there against citizens.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

I'm just gonna, you know, I do have a couple of words, I've just decided not to say it right now. I'm just gonna keep quiet about this.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

I I don't I don't censor my show. Now, Basha, what what what have these secondary inspections dealt with? Because my only secondary inspection was when I was in uh In Sean at the Inshaon Airport, and they were very nice to me.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

Secondary inspections, they were professional and nice, it's just a lengthy process. I mean, last time I was subject to secondary inspection, it took, I would say, 30 minutes. The time before it took an hour and a half, you know, especially when you're coming from the country. I mean, I last time I was I was coming from Lebanon when we had the war, we were actually flown out by an American contracted aircraft. So I was coming from a battle zone, I had my parents with me, so I did expect to be subject to secondary inspection. The second one were nice. They said, You hope you're okay, nothing happened to your family, but they're just doing the job. They took my phone, they looked for the way again. I had a fuss, but whatever. You know, it's it's secondary inspection. But you know what? I at least I was in a warm room. They've offered us a coffee, they were nice to us, we were not handcuffed, and it was like an hour, an hour and 15 minutes. That's about it. You know, the difference with Vermont, I was handcuffed in public. You know, that's big for me. I don't want to be hypersensitive, but that is big for me to be handcuffed in front of other people. Right. Let's say someone is taking a picture, a video of me being handcuffed and it goes viral. I mean, do you think I'm gonna like that? I'm I worked harder myself. I got a doctorate degree, I became an attorney, I pay my just for I'm gonna be in front of my wife please, John. I was not a virus. I committed a crime, and there was no crime about to be committed. Why do you why do you want to why why do you handcuff me in public? Just because I was born somewhere else. They need to this administration needs to understand that not only with all due respect, John, but not only white Americans voted for Trump, Brown Americans did, Muslim Americans did, Arab Americans did, black Americans did, everyone, everyone voted for Trump. He owes us this vote. There you go now. F first, you know, people you know, I've been I've been getting my last statement. Said I I I really thought things will get better when we have this administration in place, things got actually worse. Everyone was attacking me. Oh, you voted for this clown or this guy? You know, you're you're you see what's gonna happen. You deserve it. These people who said this, millions, they need to understand something. Uh it's there's I was just practicing my right to vote, okay? I was practicing my right to vote, and this country was built by immigrants. That I at first I thought people were exaggerating. You know, you'd see a YouTuber right here, you'd see a video on on YouTube or right there, whatever. You'd think maybe they're exaggerating. But when this happened to me personally, guess what? All these stories I heard, it's true. It's true because it happened to me, an American citizen.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Right. Well, um So there's been no no explanation, no further explanation from the US authorities after you got released, Fasha.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

No, nothing. Nothing. So and they have the audacity to say they're just it's protocol. They have no, you know, they just detained me, took my freedom away for five hours, my wife's freedom away for five hours in a very cold environment while I was suffering from a bank injury, a heart issue, and pressure issue, and then they say have a safe trip back home at at 12 midnight, whereas there's no cars on the road. I was the only car drawn. Highway 83, an hour and a half. I was low on gas. I have a car at the Range Rover, it consumes gas like crazy. There was no gas stations, and my sisters tell me find a hotel. What hotel? It's a no man's land up there. It is. I have, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

I think I went through the same checkpoint last summer.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

There's no gas stations, so I'll be suggesting. Yeah, yeah. So you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

All right, so uh where are you and Saline, Basho and Saline going from here in terms of arranging a lawsuit? Is there any uh uh organized uh backup for you, any kind of uh fund or organization? And and what are the public organization public interest organizations that are interested, such as the ACLU, perhaps?

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yes. So uh from here, you know, I mean this didn't happen too long ago. We're just uh trying to uh trying to like understand like everything that happened, but we already uh started communication with ACLU, and we're um hopefully um if they're interested, we would love them to join us in this uh case. Uh we're still in discussion. Uh we are uh also looking at um uh many legal uh avenues uh because we will uh file a lawsuit against our government. We're gonna proceed legally because, like I said, this is not only about my brother, it can happen to any one of us. Uh what I want to add, John, my brother mentioned that uh after this was on the news, his story was everywhere. Uh many uh many people said, okay, well, he deserves this because he voted for Trump. Uh, I wanna just uh send a message here through you that this is not about uh red versus blue, you know. This is uh this is a flashing red light that was crossed. And it was crossed with my brother, and it could be crossed by any one of us. And and America does not teach us that just because the way you vote, you deserve dignity or you deserve protection. So it's very important for anyone who's hearing us right now. It doesn't matter who my brother voted for, or it doesn't matter whether you're a Republican or a Democrat or independent. What happened is wrong, and it can happen to any one of us. And if we don't unite and stand together and try to make our government correct this, reform, uh try it protect us as Americans, this can happen to any one of us. And we need to be very careful and put our politics aside in this case.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

Exactly. So, Celine, it is there really no organized effort right now here, aside from uh uh you working collaborating with your brother and Checking with the ACLU and other organizations?

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Is there so we're still working? Like I said, we're gonna reach out also to attorneys as well, other than the ACLU. We want to make sure also we coordinate with experts who've done uh who've dealt with cases like this. Um, because we uh we will be proceeding and take the necessary legal action in this case.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Okay, so you said cases like this. So aside from uh that crazy incident that Bosho talked about, I hope you're still there, Basho. I see your name on the screen. Uh there you are. Uh, you know, he mentioned about that guy U.S. citizens held for 23 days. Are either of you aware of other United States citizens being mistreated uh by the immigration authorities, uh the you know, the customs and border protection authorities, or or anyone uh or or anyone else right now?

SPEAKER_01 44:54

So I could tell my whole family, John.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Your whole family. Please explain.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Celine can tell you that. I mean, Celine, I'm sorry, but she she can tell you because she's involved in this.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

So so basically, uh what he's saying, like as we mentioned before, that Bashir has been subjected to secondary inspection in the past.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

All right, and actually it affected us all as family because we all had also global entries and everything like this. Suddenly it got revoked for without any explanation. And uh and I I had uh I had uh we we also reached out to uh you know senators and all, and and uh we we we we didn't have any secondary inspections uh as afterwards as family members. But Bashir kept having these secondary inspections. What's bet what's what's very uh flagrant about this case is that my brother for three years he was subjected to secondary inspection. So they know who he is, they know everything about him. If there's anything, if if he has committed any crime or if he is a threat, they might as well just be uh uh imprison him already. For three years, you have like secondary inspection for this man. He has the redress number, he he filed the FOIA request. There's nothing against him.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

You know, I also contacted Governor Warren's office too.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Yes, they're just harassing this is a uh this is uh harassment at this point. But what happened to him lately crossed the line. That that's it, you know, it became illegal and it's a CBP abuse right there. I want to take uh the opportunity to also thank um, you know, like rep Maggie Goodlander and others who reached out uh, you know, to talk to us about Bashir's case and they wanted to also inquire with our government because we're looking for also congressional support. And we're so appreciative to you, John, because in the end, uh our public pressure matters, you know, the public opinion matters as well. In addition to the legal actions that we will be taking, it's very important to raise awareness. And uh and like you said, if there's anybody else who suffered the same like my brother, they can feel free to reach out to us. You know, we will try to also, you know, help. But the point is, John, me being uh an immigration attorney, I've had so many clients calling me, naturalized Americans, even attorneys, after my brother's case happened, calling me worried, you know, to travel back to the states. Like if they if they're taking a trip overseas, they're worried that this will happen to them on the way back as well. Um, so so we want to make sure that our government do the right thing, correct what they did, and be held accountable and for this not to happen to anyone else.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Okay, so well said about reaching out to congressional people because you've hit a brick wall dealing with the executive branch, but I think you're gonna get some good support from people in Congress, at least the Democrats. There are probably Republicans in Congress who'd want to help too, but might be a little afraid of uh getting re-elected. Uh, but whoever it is, yes, I'm happy you're going beyond the executive branch of government.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

And I am interested in seeing what the uh what the discovery responses are gonna be in this uh in this lawsuit, other than uh object, object, deny, deny, seek a protective order against having to answer any of your interrogatories or deposition questions or production of document requests.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Yes, and and we will definitely keep you posted. Uh I know you are a very uh known prosecutor, you know the the law, and you're you're you're one of the best. So we will keep you posted for sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Thanks. I just corrected you, not a prosecutor, known criminal defense lawyer. Um when when I when I read this, I I was I was outraged and uh and I immediately contacted Bosho. That was uh uh that was without question. Now, since the name of this show is Beat the Prosecution, I don't know if Bosho does much uh litigation work, but I but I assume you do, uh Celine, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Um well when it comes to well right now I'm I'm focusing on on immigration right now. So uh yeah, I mean we go in removal proceedings cases and all these things. Yes, definitely I represent fine.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

Uh Basho, do you do any uh litigation when I when I first when I first started for one year I was doing uh criminal defense under uh attorney uh Sam uh Goldman to make a rest in peace. Sam Goldberg out of Boston. I was shadowing him for a year. And I did some, yeah, I did, I mean, some uh pro bono work, DUI, uh speeding tickets here and there, but uh I do mostly real estate real estate and contracts.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

Since we do have about nine minutes left to uh this program, I I would like you to share uh each of you, so Basho, what uh what ideas do you have for uh being able to uh uh help criminal defense lawyers, help criminal defendants, help people in your situation in in terms of persuading in the courthouse.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Find good lawyers. Listen, you're up you're up against the government. I mean, uh okay, I'm not I'm not a litigation attorney anymore. I did that for a year. I believe I'm a very good real estate attorney, but I did s I do have some experience with uh criminal uh criminal defense, but even even if I had the experience, I would never be representing myself. Because you know, emotions uh get a bold and all that. But I would say even before you get to that point where you'd have to go to court, uh Celine may agree with me, but I've been receiving calls as well from clients. I deal with real estate, I'm known in the Arab Arabic community, Egyptian community, uh Indians, fact they all call me and they're scared. And my advice to them, because they have green card holders, like if you don't have to leave the country, don't leave the country. I mean, wait until the things get sorted out.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

And uh Celine, uh what kind of work were you doing? I think you said representing uh political prisoners, was it?

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Yes, I've represented uh a couple high-profile cases in the past, actually, involving uh Americans unlawfully detained abroad. Um and um also recently uh a Lebanese American who was uh unlawfully imprisoned in Lebanon and other cases as well. Um uh also regarding the Beirut blast. I don't know if you've heard about the Beirut blast. I was uh representing uh people unlawfully detained, uh, and one of them was an American citizen involved. So I worked closely with our government to release the 17 who were unlawfully detained, and that included the American citizen. So um so I know how other countries, you know, uh so this makes me even more proud of America, the way we fight for our Americans to bring them back home, even even to a point where we used to fight for green card holders and bring them back home. And now what we're saying is that green card holders are being arrested and deported and unlawfully arrested many times, you know, many occasions, and and deported where we used to fight so hard to bring them back home to America because you know, because lawful permanent residents in the end, they they're they're that close to becoming an American citizen, you know, and they call this country their home as well. Um, so it's so sad, you know, um what's happening uh right now. And many clients of mine who are lawful permanent residents or Americans, like naturalized, are scared, like I said, are scared to travel. Many of them cancel their trips, especially local permanent residents. They canceled their trips back home because they're worried. And even ones without any criminal record. So they'll tell me what you think, Celine, should we cancel our trip or not? What I'm gonna say. I mean, I cannot guarantee the re-entry, but usually I tell them if you if it's an emergency and you have to travel, just make sure you have everything right with you, you know, that make sure there is no violation whatsoever in their history.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Well, let's talk about that. Are you are you telling me, Celine, you've got uh US citizens who are saying they're afraid of uh traveling abroad or just non-US citizens?

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Even US citizens. Recently I had a call from uh an American-born attorney who was also worried to come back because she doesn't want to uh to access her privilege information too. That's one. And uh and others uh who are naturalized, yes, especially because I represent many Arab Americans, you know, like uh uh people who uh you know have done their paperwork and they become Americans, naturalized Americans from Arab background, they're scared, they're they don't want to go back home because they know they're gonna be profiled and on the way back they're gonna be subjected to secondary inspection and they have to deal with all this mess. So they're worried.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

And let's talk about the non-U.S. citizens. I mean, Marco Rubio has come right out and said it. He said he's gonna use the McCarran-Walter Act from uh the McCarthy era era in the early 1950s to uh move to deport people just for their exercising their First Amendment rights. And uh and that's happening left and right. And I'm so delighted that an organization like the FIRE, if you don't know about them, Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, I think it is. Check with them, Celine. Uh there's they're standing up for these First Amendment, the First Amendment rights of everybody, not just the uh US citizens alone. And the great thing about the FIRE is they've got people uh throughout the political spectrum uh fighting for these rights, from conservative to very liberal. Exactly. And you know what, John?

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Americans usually, usually, people who like to come to America, who want to visit us here, they don't, or they want to come work here, or they want to come uh you know to teach uh or to become doctors in our country. Usually they don't come to America because of our advanced advancement in technology or education, they come for what America stands for, for our freedom. That's what people come here for. And once we start affecting our freedoms and stripping this away from us, what kind of message are we sending to the world? What kind of message? We're known for our freedoms. Look, other countries, definitely, when you go to other countries, if you say something or you could criticize the regime, or you say something that doesn't uh fall along with the whatever the government wants to tell you, yes, they can do many things for you. But what makes us different as Americans is our freedom, it's our first amendment, freedom of speech. And now we're attacking this. This is this is very sad, and this is uh not the image that we want the world to see America in. And this is actually that's not what America stands for.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

Exactly. Basho, you were saying or were you? Hello?

SPEAKER_03 56:07

Yes, John, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Yes, you're about to interject.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Yes, I was gonna tell you something. Uh first, I do agree with Celine. The constitution actually protects everyone step and step and foot in America's soil honor in Americans. But just to tell you based on my experience, I'm actually in Lebanon right now. I've been here for like four days. I swear, I was scared at the airport, leaving Boston Logan. I was also subject to secondary on the way out. They were very nice and oh we saw yes, and I swear I was scared in Boston. I was scared in Istanbul because I'm not a Turkish citizen. You know, sadly speaking, you know where I felt safe when I stepped foot in Beirut Airport. I mean, I'm Lebanese too, I love Lebanon, but the United States is my mother. I love the United States, and I did not feel safe in that airport. I've lived 20 I've lived most of my life in the United States. I only felt safe when I got to Lebanon, which is my second home. This is sad. I mean, I really don't want to feel this way. But that's how I feel. Now I'm scared. I'm going back to the States. I'm going back home June 15th. I don't know what's waiting for me there.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

I'm just waiting for me. Is Celine gonna be at the airport waiting for you at Logan Airport?

SPEAKER_03 57:25

I wanna make sure, even I want to make sure everyone is waiting for me there because I am scared.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

Everyone, yes. Everyone. Okay, I told both of you that we would be together for 60 minutes, so we have one minute left. I deeply appreciate the both of you are here with uh Boscho, with you and your wife still uh overcoming this trauma. I'm sure Celine uh feeling it as well. Boshow, is there anything you want to tell the audience that you haven't already said? And feel free to remind everyone where you work if you wish.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

All I want to say is like, don't don't uh prosecute people for uh you know uh practicing their right to vote. Okay? And God bless you, God bless America, and God bless everyone who's hearing us right now.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Thank you so much, Basho. And Celine, do you have any final words you would like to share with uh everybody before we sign off?

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Final word is um, I mean, first I want to thank you, John, for giving us the opportunity here and to shed light on my brother's case. And for whoever is hearing us, I would ask them to put politics aside. Look at this as an American citizen who has stripped from his rights. And this can happen to any one of us. So that's why we need to, you know, unite together and fight together because we love America. And if we love America, America teaches us to stand up for our values when they are under threat. And this is what we're doing. And God bless you all and thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Thanks you both. Thanks to you both, everybody. You have heard from Bashir Atala and his lawyer and sister Celine Atala. I appreciate so much you've spent time with us getting these important words, thoughts, and truths out. This is John Katz, the beat the prosecution, because there's no other way to go. I'm a criminal defense and DUI defense lawyer in Northern Virginia. Everybody stand by, please.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Thank you for listening to this week's episode from Beat the Prosecution. This is a regular podcast giving people a leg up against police investigations and prosecutions. Nothing discussed on our media sources, such as our podcast or website, is legal advice. John Katz only provides legal advice to current clients or to individuals who have paid for a consultation. We welcome you contacting us via email at info at beat the prosecution.com by calling our office at 703 383 1100 or texting us at 571 406 7268.