SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Beat the Prosecution, presented by Northern Virginia criminal defense and DUI lawyer Jonathan Katz, where we are here to regularly present you information and ideas for beating your prosecution as best as possible. Nothing on any of our media sources, such as our podcast or website, is legal advice. John Katz only provides legal advice to current clients or for individuals who have paid for a consultation. And now for your host, John Katz.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Hello, everybody. This is John Katz of Beat the Prosecution. I'm a criminal defense and DUI defense lawyer in Northern Virginia. I am delighted to have Ophelia Calderon on our show today. She is a great immigration lawyer. She's a great person. She's joining us from Spain, if I understand correctly. It's 7 a.m. where I am, and it's noon where she is. Here's why I wanted Ophelia on the show. Well, aside from her being a great lawyer and someone who really knows the immigration end of uh, you know, what immigrants need to know uh about their risks that might uh arise from criminal prosecutions and from criminal convictions. Uh and also um uh she's a member of the LAJC, if I got this right, the Legal Aid and Justice Center in uh in Virginia. And let's face it, uh this Trump administration is more dangerous for non-United States citizens than the first one. We already see at least one or two uh green card permanent resident holders uh being deported without due process, in my view, without due process. We already see uh a planeful planefuls of people today is uh to put this in perspective, date perspective, uh today is March 20th of 2025. We already around this last weekend saw uh two planefuls or more than two planefuls of uh alleged, I guess, gang members being flown to Salvador or somewhere in Central or South America, and the planes didn't turn around even when a judge ordered that they be returned. This is a new day uh for uh immigrants. Uh well, I won't say immigrants for people who are not United States citizens who are in the United States. This is a new day for non-citizens of the United States who want to come into the United States. This is the ideal time for uh Ophelia to be with us. Her last name, Calderon, in English, means cauldron. She is full of uh drive, and uh you'll know what I mean by that. Why do I keep talking? Let Ophelia introduce herself. Ophelia, please introduce yourself to everybody.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

There's nothing else for me to say, John. You said it all. You said it all. Um yeah, I am an immigration attorney in here in Fairfax, Virginia. I guess they're in Fairfax, Virginia. Um, I'm currently just working remotely for a bit here in Spain, but um I'll be back next week.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Before we go further, please plug your law firm. What's your law firm's name? What's your web address?

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Uh Calderon Sewin is the name of the law firm. Um, it's www.calderonseguin.com. So Scott's, so my partner is Scott Sewin. It's S-E-G-U-I-N. So the Cauldron, C-A-L-D-E-R-O-N, S-E-G-U-I-N.com.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

And is your headquarters still in Merrifield, Virginia?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Yep, we're located in Merrifield. We do primarily a lot of immigration. We do also some criminal defense, but mostly we are um immigration defenders these days, especially me. Well, I'm just 100% um immigration. Um, and we do we're a full service, but we uh do tend to do probably more than 50% removal work um or deportation defense, um, including detained individuals, which is on the rise. Sadly.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

I want to tell everybody, yes, on the rise, terribly so. I want to tell everyone how I first met Ophelia. I'm not gonna uh stick on it, but Ophelia is she she's a real person. And at the trial or as college, we focus on you cannot be fully powerful as an advocate until you work on your person, you're a real person, she is as real as they come. Uh, my former law partner, Jay Marks, introduced me to Ophelia. I think I met her at uh a happy hour around uh 20 years ago in DC. It may have even been during Cinco de Mayo. Uh subsequently, after uh Jay and I split when we were with each other for 10 years, because I was mostly doing uh criminal defense, he's doing immigration. He joined forces with Ophelia, I think uh two two other lawyers too. Uh they were together for a few years, and and and now Jay is uh Jay's on his own uh with his own lawyers. Uh so we go back in time. So essentially, this has been uh 20 years it has taken for me to be interviewing Ophelia. With that, Ophelia, I would like you to start by at least briefly telling people what made uh you decide to go to law school, what uh made you decide to take the immigration path, and uh what was your first uh immigration job?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Okay. Um, so I mean it sounds really bad actually because immigration was sort of my, it was sort of a weird fallback field. Um, before I I always wanted to be a lawyer. I mean, who knows? I'm aging myself. I mean, so I don't really know if it was that I was watching LA Law, MATLAB, who knows? But I as a kid, I always wanted to be a lawyer. And it was just something that just kind of came around. Every now and then I'd be like, no, actually, I want to be an astronaut. And I'm like, no, I'm gonna be a lawyer. No, I'm gonna be a marine biologist, no, I'm gonna be a lawyer. Um, and then in high school, college, um, I did a I sort of I felt I studied political science with a focus on Latin America, um, and I spent a lot of time doing rights work. So I was with the ACLU in college, and then um I did an internship with Amnesty, which turned into a longer thing. And so I working in human rights, civil rights, human rights, just kind of constantly. Um, when I came back to, and then I took a three-year break. And when I came back and I went to law school, which ultimately I knew was gonna happen, I will I always wanted to litigate. And so I thought actually, John, that I was gonna be joining your ranks, right? In the for a while. I thought I'm gonna do criminal defense. And then I'm not really sure how it happened, actually. I mean, I wish I could say there was this grand passion that led me that way, but it did, at the end of the day, when I came back from San Francisco and I was looking for work in DC, I I thought to myself that immigration was a good blend because when you do defend deportation defense, obviously there is some litigation that's involved. Um I don't know that I would go so far. Well, today maybe I would, but in the past, I'm not sure I would go so far as to say that immigration is human rights work. Um, but it's a very, very, very, very, very close cousin if it's not. Um, and I think that that has a lot to do with it, right? That there was there was rights work involved and um and criminal work. So it was an interesting blend, and that's kind of how I ended ended up doing immigration. My first job was with a small firm um in DC. It was like a little boutique firm. Uh there were, I think I was one of two lawyers out of one of four lawyers, I guess, two partners and then and two associates. It was, I was also a full service, so I did all the things. Um, but for sure at that time when I started, it was clear to me that my first love at that point was I want to go to court, I want to defend people there. Um, and that's that's that. And then of course I left shortly thereafter and went on my own. Where did you go to law school? San Francisco, University.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Very cool. Uh we had on the show a few months ago Rhonda McGee. I don't know if she was a law professor there at the time. She was. And uh the reason I had her on mainly is she's a big part of the Laura's mindfulness movement. And she actually has a great book called The Something The Inner Work of Racial Justice, where she addresses how we can use mindfulness to uh to deal with overcoming uh racism and uh achieving racial justice.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

But I guess you didn't I guess I'm gonna have to go backwards in time and listen to that podcast.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yes. Uh and uh where did you learn Spanish? Oof.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Um not from my family, interestingly. I mean, Calderón is a Spanish name. I'm half Mexican. I guess I want to shout this out. I'm half um, I'm fifth generation Mexican-American and half Chinese. My mom is first generation, or not first generation, but my mom is a Chinese immigrant from Taiwan. Um, my dad's from the valley in Texas, and I think this is one of the most interesting things. Um, interesting that you brought up the racial justice question, because or point, um, because my dad was born in South Texas, my grandparents were born in South Texas, my great-grandparents were born in South Texas. Um, but in my dad's generation, which I think makes sense, right? I mean, my dad was born in the early 50s, early 51 actually, Spanish the the goal was assimilation. So I think a lot of the children of Mexican immigrants, multiple generations, didn't drive that Spanish thing at home at all. It was the opposite, like let's assimilate. Um I I never spoke Spanish growing up. And on a trip a couple of years ago down south with my own son, it was kind of a surprise to know that like a lot of Mexican Americans do not speak Spanish because it's just not something that's that was um cultivated as part of their family life. Um, so A, I think because I learned Spanish multiple ways. One, I took one class, but mostly I studied French and Chinese. And then when I was working in Amnesty, because I was working in the Latin American department, I tried to pick it up and I was picking it up. And then I am married to a Spaniard. Um, so I spent a lot of time, I gotta learn Spanish, otherwise, how am I gonna know what my mother-in-law is saying about me? Um I have to say being bilingual is very useful. Um, if I want to, you know, if uh here in Spain when I'm with my husband, if we want to talk bad about uh people, we do it in English. And same thing, if we're at the dinner table with my own family, if we want to talk about bad about people, then we speak in Spanish. Um, and then of course, you know, that I had then I had sort of a base. I I won't say that it's perfect because it's not. My grammar's kind of uh iffy. Um, but I have been speaking Spanish for like 20 solid years now. And um obviously my clients they assist me by forcing me to speak every day all the time.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Wow. Well, I learned some things there that I didn't know before. So my my son is biracial, my wife is uh from Korea. You you're uh I guess I don't know if we call it biracial, if it's more uh uh more one race than the other. But and also you speak French and Spanish. French was my first language. It wasn't the smartest reason for me to do it. I thought it sounded nicer uh than Spanish, but I realized in college I better better take it. So I took it first semester. And what really uh made me speak better was uh I soaked it up then, and when I was with Jay for 10 years, I mean we mostly had Spanish speaking clients at the start. And one day I said to uh my client, while I had a uh a legal assistant helping me uh interpret, I said something to him, like, you're a liar. And uh my assistant, I'm exaggerating, so I'm like, John likes your tie. I said, I didn't say that. I said, uh I'll I'll do the rest of this meeting, and if I say something wrong, just let me know. And then of course, for two years we had our radio show from 98 to 2000, legalmente hablando, donde sus causas nuestra causa. And we did the uh the first criminal show, and I was speaking in English, and Jay was interpreting, and people were saying left to right to Jay, I thought this was a Spanish-speaking show. So I was forced to speak Spanish on the radio show, and it was great. Oh, Philly, I I don't know. I hear you speak in Spanish so many times, you could have fooled me that you weren't a native Spanish speaker, so you picked it up a lot better than I did.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Well, you know, I do use it every single day, right? I mean, if it's not um, you know, I'm in this transition thing in Spain anyway, because my kid goes to university here. Um, and my husband asked me if I was practicing, and I laughed. And I'm like, you know, sometimes I do. I mean, obviously I speak Spanish when I'm here in Madrid, but I literally I speak Spanish like half the day when I'm at work. I mean, the only thing is that I think that my clients, I I definitely my Spanish is good. I'm not I'm not saying it's not, um, but it could use correction and no one does it.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Okay, I got that. Now, also it's interesting to talk about the ACLU and Amnesty because I uh before I got alienated from amnesty about all their calls for bringing people to justice, meaning meaning bringing them to the criminal courts in the same countries that are violating human rights left and right, where the courts are violating people's uh human rights left and right. So, how are the those same courts violating human rights going to do real justice anyway? But when I was in uh high school, so I graduated from high school in 1981, I would read all about in the New York Times about Amnesty International doing this and that. I said, wow, this sounds like a great organization. So I got involved with Amnesty in in uh uh college, and then uh I went on to the ACLU board uh in Prince George's County, Maryland when I was a public defender there in uh 92 to 95. And uh, and uh then I became one of their two representatives to the uh local ACLU. Uh and well, the interesting thing about the ACLU, I won't get big on that because we're gonna start talking about the immigration soon, is they kind of got watered down and how much they were uh picking up the mantle of the First Amendment. But uh that that that's that's a whole other uh several shows. With that, okay, Ophelia, uh we had enough horrors during the uh Trump administration, and this isn't meant to dump on Trump. People can have their own uh uh their own views of him, but I'm talking about the effects on non-U.S. citizens. We had enough horrors with the Trump administration and his first administration. What is different now? And uh how do I how do we deal as criminal defense laws with this dichotomy between uh having the immigration authorities uh trolling the courthouses and having uh chief prosecutors like in uh Arlington and Fairfax, uh the courthouse right across the street from my courthouse, where the uh at least in Fairfax, it is still made clear by the chief Fairfax prosecutor that his office is not going to be uh uh working to uh report at least uh people who are nonviolent uh people to the immigration authorities.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Yeah, I mean, what's different? I mean, I think honestly, what's different, I think, one I think is speed. Um, the other thing is that it's not just about immigration, right? So I feel like the biggest difference is the just volume, right? The volume of changes. And the volume of changes, like I said, it in it there's there's the volume of changes in immigration, um, which also coincided with the Lake and Riley Act, which is not an executive action. It was a congressional piece, um, but it's just every day, right? Every day there's a new executive order. And then when I mean volume, I mean also the non-related immigration things, like, you know, changes to employment. I mean, it affects us in DC, right? Like let's fire everybody, the USAID stuff. And I think the big difference is that it's hard to figure out where to focus, right? In a battle against all of these changes, when they're coming, it's really hard for even, you know, for organizations, for people, like, should I be protesting about this? Should I be acting on this? Should I write, you know, when you write your congressman, they give you like the three or four options. Like, are you are you here to talk about this, this, or this? And it's like, actually, I'm here to talk about everything. Like, I want like I would like everything to be changed. So I think that's a really big difference. Um, I think the use of um I I gotta say they got lucky with the, I think lucky, um, with Lake and Riley because that's a congressional act. I mean, that's a big thing that doesn't have anything, not that it doesn't really have anything to do with Trump because it was already in the works. Um, that allows immigration to pick up and detain people who not only have been convicted, right? I think we can all agree about, okay, I we can all agree that we don't want violent criminals out on the streets, right? And so a part of us can come to we can come to some agreement, like, okay, it's fine if you want to detain these people, that's fine. Um, and then maybe we should have a bond hearing. That's what I think, right? Maybe we should have some process. It's a whole nother thing when you can, when we're talking about detention of people who are accused of crimes, John, right? I mean, I I don't think that's the same. I mean, our system works that I as far as I know, you're innocent until you're proven guilty, right? So that's a huge change coming out of Lake and Riley that you can that they can detain people without bond who've been accused of certain types of crimes.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Um, then you have that, you have that on top of a moment off Leah before Lake and Riley. How how do we spell uh Lakin? L-A-K-E-N, I think. Okay, now does that only uh deal with uh theft prosecutions? So what kind of prosecutions does that deal with? And what kind of adverse action does that deal with before a person has even been adjudicated for their case?

SPEAKER_02 17:34

You mean like what happens to them? Like what why is that?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Wait, well, my understanding is Lake and Riley is that uh uh uh there's a certain class of crimes, at least theft, where if a person's not a United States citizen, they have a pending theft case. And if uh the immigration authorities find out about it, that there might be adverse actions that are already going to start before the conviction, if you can just walk the audience through that.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

So it's for the group is or the group of crimes is theft, assaulting law, enforcement officers, crimes causing bodily injury or serious harm. Um, and I want to say there's one more, but I can't remember it right now. Um but the point is that actually this applies to everybody, not just people, this would include LPRs. So it's not just people without lawful status. We are legal permanent legal permanent residents, right? People who have green cards, uh, you know, in in in street talk. Um so this would apply to them as well. And what it means, as I said, is that so it's one thing to be so Lake and Riley expands the ability to detain to individuals who have who are charged with the crimes, not convicted with the crimes. And it also eliminates bond.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Eliminates bond. Insane.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Insane, insane.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

The only thing that was worse than that was in Indonesia uh for about two or three years in the 1970s, uh their dictators to hard to okay uh police to kill uh theft suspects on the spot. So if a shop owner didn't like their next door neighbor, they could just report to the police that Jimmy just stole the pair of blue jeans from my store, and then the police would take care of Jimmy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

I mean, I think we have to think about something exactly that type of exactly that type of action and what that could mean for people, right? I mean, it's in it's insane. As it's it's crazy. It's insane to me that we would be able to detain people without the possibility of bond on the accusation of someone without actually having had a full and complete judicial proceeding, a court proceeding, right? Like what you do, John.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

So that's a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I had interrupted you to ask uh to tell us more about Lake and Riley, and then you're going into the next thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

I forgot what the next thing was. Um, there's so many expansion of expedited removal, right? So we always had this um expedited removal deal, um, which was that if someone was coming over, if someone was encountered, a person who is undocumented or without lawful status was encountered within 90 miles of the border, right? Then immigration or customs and border patrol can detain them and then place them in what's called expedited removal. And expedited removal means that they themselves can just go ahead and administratively remove someone without letting them have an opportunity to go before an immigration court. So that has traditionally been, like I said, that 90 miles on the border, right? So it could be like water, land, whatever. Anyway, that's been expanded to the interior.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

So far. The interior.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

That's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

The entire United States.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

The entire United States. So that's everywhere. So the way that that EO is worded, it is that expedite removal has been expanded to everywhere, right? And originally, and we'll see how this falls out because sometimes it can be difficult to see exactly what they mean by this, but originally it was if encountered, and it's also been expanded to two years. So um, if you're encountered within two years of your entry and you don't have status, then we can place you in expedite removal. That's fun. That's fun and new.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Um, how that plays out expedited removal, is that only for people without status, without uh immigration status?

SPEAKER_02 21:13

It's not, but I think the other exped the other expedited removal, I mean, mostly it is. I think the answer should just be mostly it is. There's I guess there's like a sort of complicated side piece to it where you can have lawful permanent residence and also be ex subject to it based on crimes. But the the focus of this expansion is expedited removal, people who've been here for less than two years, people who have who are here without status and don't have anything. Although I've heard rumors, and the issue is too, is like it's hard to separate the rumors from the facts, right? Like I don't really know. Um, for one I I can't be 100% certain, but I have heard anecdotally um of individuals being picked up that and and subject to subjected to expedite removal, notwithstanding the fact. That they also have something pending with immigration.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

And this is an opportunity to tell the audience members who haven't lived closer to the border with Mexico or Canada that the immigration authorities are authorized, I think even by U.S. Supreme Court case law, to stop people. How far into the interior? Uh can they do that to just stop people 90 miles?

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Oh, well, now it's everywhere. Now it's everywhere, but it was 90 miles.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Wait, wait, that that that relates to what I'm talking about now? So, because I interviewed with a federal public defender in Las Cruces, New Mexico in 1994. And I was driving my rental car back from there to Albuquerque to stay overnight before leaving. And I got as angry as possible that uh I was being stopped in the middle of nowhere late at night, all I wanted to go to bed, and I'm being uh stopped and asked questions by uh border patrol folks or whatever they called them at that time about whether I'm a U.S. citizen, whether it was a rental car. And I said to myself, oh, so this is what happens near the border. And you're telling me this can now happen throughout the United States?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah, I don't think we have the resources. I mean, yes, the answer is yes. Um, but I think it's interesting because how that in in practice has occurred, I mean, there's just the regular um monitoring, right, of the border. So CBP, um, those are the part that's the part of the the of D of DHS that you know goes up and down on the border. Um but in addition to their regular monitoring, they have traditionally had checkpoints like right around the 90 miles. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

That's what I think.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

And so everybody goes through those checkpoints. Um, I don't think that we have the resources at least with only staffed by CBP, to put checkpoints in place everywhere, right? Um but yes, I mean the the the important part is that everyone can now be questioned and everyone now can be, you know, everyone now can be subjected to expedited removal. Not US citizens.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Are any of the federal appellate courts uh okaying the checkpoints uh hundreds of checkpoint?

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Well I haven't seen any checkpoints in the middle yet. I haven't seen those checkpoints. So I just know that when we are that I just know that expedited removal is expanded to the whole country.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

And are are f are any of the federal appellate courts okaying the uh checkpoints hundreds of miles from any borders?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Well, that has already well those the previous checkpoints are fine. Are fine. Nothing with I don't think it's gone to court yet, the expansion. Not not that, because I don't see the checkpoint.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

So anyone can be questioned, and uh is it sufficient to say I'm taking the Fifth Amendment, where the uh immigration uh official then can say, uh, we're not talking about Fifth Amendment here. We're not talking about uh criminal risk. But of course, yes, uh, one way or the other, if a person is uh questioned by any government authorities, in my view, they have the right to say I'm not speaking because there's no compelled uh communication. The only compelled communication I know about is in the uh jurisdictions that have laws saying that if the police have reasonable suspicion to believe you're committing a crime or have committed a crime, uh that that uh I think this is the hot from the Heibel case, H-I-I-B-E-L from the US Supreme Court, uh, that you at least have to identify yourself. And what's the best way to identify yourself? Uh well, no one says you have to talk. I mean, because that would criminalize uh a deaf mute person, so you just show them your your idea if you want to. And no one has to have an idea with that with you if you're not uh if if you're inside the United States and not driving. So so with that, uh what do you recommend to people if they decide, well, do you recommend everyone just to decline to answer these questions? I think that's the way to go. And how do they do it? Uh instead of to me, instead of saying I take the fifth, I got my two favorite phrases. I'm not talking, I want a lawyer. And then another one I love is if the cops say pop open your trunk, or uh, can I search you to say no thank you, can drive you, drive them crazy because they're saying, Oh, so you're being sarcastic here saying no thank you, but it just uh at least makes you sound more polite. With that, what would you recommend?

SPEAKER_02 26:22

I think that's the only I mean I think that's the way, right? I mean, you you still have a right to remain silent, obviously, in the face of questioning by CBP or or I mean by DHS or whoever. Um, I think the the I think one of the biggest differences here is, and actually I would argue that I mean, in in a lot of situations, um, you know, I mean, it is there is a a there's a federal law against um uh against illegal re-entry into the United States. So, I mean, I'm I would argue that the Fifth Amendment often does apply, you know, can apply. Um, also there are states that are attempting or are some that have already done it that have created new laws that make it illegal to make it criminally illegal to be illegal in the country. So I think we're still in the same like, yep, you still have that Fifth Amendment right against self-pro, you know, against self-incrimination. So um in most immigration KYRs, I mean, remaining silent remains an important tool. Having said that, I think it is very hard for many immigrants to exercise that right. It has a lot to do with what you're talking about, obviously your knowledge of like the outside world. I mean, the reality is that I mean, up until recently, um, I would say to myself, okay, well, for the most part, I want to believe that the police are good, you know, are doing doing just doing their jobs, right? Um, but a lot of people come from countries where the police don't do their jobs and they do other things like hurt you, right? Like do mean things to you, like beat you, like torture you, like throw you into jail without charges, etc. All these other things, right? That's why we have amnesties, the amnesties of the world, right? Notwithstanding the complications of this, right? But the reality is that if that's your history and that's what you know, it is very difficult for people not to answer the question, right? Not to say, not not to, they just they're scared, right? They don't, their experiences are different from ours. But yes, I tell all my clients to be quiet. I can't say that they they do. They love to vomit up information. Um, um, an important note about this is that in removal proceedings, it's actually the burden of the government to demonstrate a person's alienage, like where they're from. So if if anything, I'm like, okay, you want to tell them your name. If you have to, fine. But you know, definitely don't answer questions about where you're from, how you came to the United States. You don't have to answer those questions. But once you do answer those questions and they put them in, put it in their little I-213, now you've you you've you know, now you've given them the evidence that they need to demonstrate that the first portion of immigration, which the first thing in an immigration court, which is that you are not a U.S. citizen or that you're not from here. I always tell my clients not to lie because lying is like the death penalty in immigration. Um really hard to get a get over. And of course, no one should be claiming to be a U.S. citizen. That is really the death penalty in immigration, right? You can't get over it, there's no waivers. Um, so there's that. I also tell my clients to be as polite as possible and just say, like, no. Obviously, you know, you and I are basically talking about street encounters or like encounters that are not taking place in homes or or or um workplaces. Um, but remaining silent is the most important thing that you can do. I want to see a lawyer. I want to talk to a lawyer. I think that's important too. There's no question about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Here's the harder part of Philly, and I don't know if you're aware of this. Uh on the one hand, Victor Glassberg, and maybe you've heard of him.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

What a great civil rights lore. Um his URL is Robinhood ESQ. And he was apparently at the forefront of uh of changing the um the litany for pleas, and I don't know if it was throughout the Virginia uh or or just parts of Virginia, to uh say to people, look, if you're not a United States citizen, uh this can have adverse immigration consequences. Your conviction here. But unfortunately, what happens as a result of that, and what I saw happening in uh in in Maryland, where it was uh uh I think it was just a common part of litany uh years ago before, was a lot of judges are making the mistake. Judges, if any of you are hearing, share this with your colleagues. Do not ask what I'm hearing too many of you say, even if one of you say it is too many. Are you a U.S. citizen? No. You just couch it as if you're not a United States citizen. Do you understand that if you're not an United States citizen, your conviction here or the result here could have adverse consequences? Well, you know, Ophelia might be easier for a person to refuse to answer a cop, but they might have a lot of concern about answering a uh a judge. So this is one of the reasons to have a lawyer. And all you lawyers out there, don't let that question be asked. Now I have lot let some judges uh slip by on this when my clients, uh, a U.S. citizen, and where I knew that uh we were gonna have a uh what do you call it, a row-to-toe or a toe-to-row to convince the judge to give my client a favorable sentence. Uh, but in general, just don't have those questions answered. And Ophelia, I had a guy who who's a green card holder. He got convicted of DWI. Uh, it wasn't gonna threaten anything with immigration other than delaying uh when he could apply uh for citizenship. But then he's being processed. Uh he was being processed by this uh uh deputy sheriff, I guess to be referred to, the Virginia Alcohol Safety Action Program. And the sheriff said, What is your immigration status? And I said to the sheriff, my client is not answering. He said, Well, I have to fill out this box here. Uh I think it's on the computer. If if if I if I don't fill out the box, it won't get to the next screen. I said, That's not my problem. I said, We can go back in front of the judge if if we need to. And then he figured out something to put in the box. So, look, you know, lawyers uh we're we're lawyers for a reason. We are advocating, uh, we are advocating for our clients. And even if that means that this deputy sheriff isn't going to be helpful to us next time we're on court and recommend to the uh courtroom clerk to uh call our case first versus last. I mean, that's part of what it's about. But Ophia, I what I find is when I when I stand up for my clients, I get more respect from the prosecutors, the police, the judges, the courtroom staff when they know they can't screw around with me, they can't screw around with my client. I stand between me and my client. Now, of course, you know, where do I get my piss and vinegar? This goes at least back to Mrs. Hughes. I'm not gonna say her name. Uh I called it colloquially Mrs. Smith before. But let's just say in fourth grade, uh, Mrs. Hughes prevented me from being in the holiday concert. I was playing trumpet. It was my first concert because I had the temerity to uh disobey her when she said you gotta wait to be called on the PA system to practice with the ensemble before the court uh before the uh uh uh before the concert starts. And I snuck out of her classroom, and when I saw that the lights were out in the auditorium to practice, she was standing there at the doorway. She said, Go to the principal's office, you're not gonna be in this concert. And that venom against Mrs. Hughes continued. And to the next time I saw her when I was in fifth grade, she stopped me in the hallway and she said, in the morning, and she said, What were you doing playing in the garden apartments across the street last week? I said, What makes you say I was doing that, Mrs. Hughes? And uh she said, Because there was a report of a brown-haired boy, well, I have brown hair on my eyebrows at least still, and uh and a blue jacket playing over there. And the the advocate in me just came right out. I said, You just describe half the boys in the school, Mrs. Hughes. So for me, Ophelia, it's just natural for me to stand up against the injustices, just natural for me to be willing to be sent to the principal's office by standing up. I mean, we can do it politely, and we have to do it politely. And I I think you're the same, no?

SPEAKER_02 34:16

I mean, I am. I mean, I I mean, I think most people would say that that's probably true. I mean, I think that um not unlike you, like I carry a level of charm, you know. Um and I think there's a an appropriate time to use that charm. Um, and I think sometimes we choose our battles. Um, I think when it comes to defending my I I'll choose, I'll choose battles for myself. Um, for my clients, I think I generally have to, there's no choice every every day every day. I mean, it's always a battle. And I and I think we have we as advocates have to advocate on their behalf and make sure that if if they can't do it, that we're doing it, right? Exercising their rights and protecting them from sometimes from themselves. Sometimes it, you know, as I said, it's very hard for people, I think, who have different life experiences to stand up and do what you did, for example, right? I mean, questioning authority, etc. Like that that's not like you know, in some places that's a thing, in some places it isn't a thing, right? I mean, I can't be mad at my kids for the same reason because, you know, I'm the mom that, you know, puts put that put those ACLU stickers all over their lunchboxes, their backpacks that say, like, do you have a warrant? Do you have a warrant, right? Just think on their cell phones, right? Like, you know, and I can't be, I I I have been angry about their bad behavior, but generally speaking, you know, I can't, it's hard for me to be angry with with them for questioning authority, for standing up for them for themselves, and for standing up for others, right? Because when you don't, and I mean that's just a fundamental part of of me, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Okay, so how much are the immigration authorities trolling the courthouses in Virginia, trolling the apartment buildings and workplaces in the DC area?

SPEAKER_02 35:58

I don't know the answer to that. This is really anecdotal. Like my feeling about this is that I, you know, there's definitely been I mean, all of this is gonna be anecdotal, right? There's definitely allegedly an increase, an uptick in people getting pulled over, you know, here and there. Um, there was a recent article, maybe it was NBC, I don't know, but down in Manassas where um a lawful a US citizen actually was stopped and detained, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Um because they looked they looked non-American.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

That's I guess it depends on what you think American look American looks like, but that's exactly right. Uh they happen to be of Latino descent. Um, I think that article was mostly it came out for lots of reasons. One, because this U.S. citizen had been detained. I don't know what the status of the other individuals in the car was, but obviously they were working class people, working class men in a truck of tan complexion, we'll call it. Um they were pulled over and then they were held, and allegedly they weren't doing anything wrong. Um so there is an uptick, I think, um, in terms of um, I don't want to call, I guess it's what they call it, enforcement, right? Um, there's an uptick in reporting. So a lot of people who are here um that have process, right? So they're in the process of something. So they're applying, they have to go to immigration court, whatever. They also have to do supervision. So they have to go to these appointments. I guess I would liken it to like probation or parole or something, but there's a reporting mechanism where it in lieu of detention that uh that has been pretty common in the past, which I find really interesting because most people who are in immigration proceedings that are required to report, they do report. They do comply, right? It's really and even when they're waiting for their hearing for three years and they never get a notice, they're like, oh no, I have to go to this appointment, right? Like they've been told, like, if you don't attend this appointment, you are going to be deported, right? And they're compliant, right? And and they go. So definitely there's an uptick um across the country in people going to those previously okay reporting sessions, and now they're being arrested and detained, and and then you know, that's detention is just a whole other thing. Representing someone who's detained in the immigration world is infinitely more difficult um than non-detained, and it's infinitely more difficult than representing someone who's detained in the criminal context. Finding them, they can be pushed anywhere, you know, they can be shipped off to any old so to jails in Louisiana and Georgia, which makes, for example, if that's my client, and now this is this my job has become infinitely more difficult.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

So, Ophelia, related to yeah, going and being detained, of course, it can make a difference if they have a lawyer. And in that regard, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, no courts have extended the uh Gideon versus Wayne Wright U.S. Supreme Court decision about uh providing uh lawyers uh without charge for uh indigent criminal defendants. That doesn't apply for per purely immigration proceedings, does it? And are there any jurisdictions of the United States that provide funding for that?

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Well, the answer to the first question is absolutely not, right? So you the so when you're placed in immigration proceedings, detained or otherwise, you you have the right to have counsel, but you don't have the right to have free counsel or to have government pay for uh for that for that counsel. So that's that, right? Um on on are there jurisdictions that provide funding for it? There are some. I mean, Arlington had a fund for a period of time. Um, whether or not any of those programs continue or will continue in light of the Trump administration's very, very vocal opposition to so-called sanctuary cities, right, I think remains unknown. Like I think it's likely that they would lose federal funding. And so it's likely that these programs will stop. I mean, even the the you know, legal orientation programs were stopped, right? So, you know, it a lot of people don't have representation. A lot of organizations, nonprofit organizations working it worked in conjunction with the Department of Justice to do orientation for unrepresented people who are detained, right? I mean it makes sense so they would come in, explain their rights, tell them what they could do, how to find a lawyer, what to do if they don't have a lawyer, and now those programs are out, right? So I think and we're in dark days for immigration purposes, and that's just a fact.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

And I think one of the reasons that you uh every sense of humor and I do is so we can laugh so we don't always cry.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

I mean Yeah, yeah, I I mean, yeah, I mean there has to be some level of levity. I mean, I can't be sad all the time. I mean look, this is hard, right? It's hard work. I mean, uh all of our jobs are hard. I think it's hard when you're thinking about families, and uh there have been a lot of different times in my career where I've seen really terrible things, and I'm struck by the inhumanity of it. Um, in the last Trump administration, I went to Texas right in in May or June of 2019 when we were separating parents and children um at the border, and that was really it was very difficult on me. I interviewed 50 parents over a four-day period at the Port Isabel facility, and I just I I mean, I it could be because I'm a parent, but I think that actually most human beings would feel sad for parents who had their children ripped from them and didn't know where they were. I mean, that's a terrible, terrifying feeling. I mean, you have a kid, I have kids, like I can't even imagine that, right? Um, obviously, I thought that was terrible. Um, you know, there's and then the kids are lost all over the United States and we don't know where they are. Um I think when you have families that are being separated and there's you know, there's no criminal history, it it feels terrible. Um, when there's no avenue for people to have status, when they have mixed mixed status families, it's really hard. Um oh one of the other big changes actually that strikes me in terms of being, I think the first time I I mean I'm not ashamed of it, but the first time I really cried in the in this administration um was probably week two or three, with week two, it's when they changed the sensitive location policy. Um, and so then so traditionally ICE has not been permitted to go into hospitals, schools, um, and one more that I can't think about right now, but these are sensitive churches. So these are sensitive locations, right? So you're not gonna go in there and just arrest a bunch of kids, right? Um, and anyway, so in I think the second week that executive order came out saying that there were no more sensitive locations.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

And um I live in a neighborhood that I would say is, you know, very immigrant-friendly. I mean, there's just a lot of immigrants there. I mean, I would say it was friendly is not even a word. It just traditionally has been an immigrant neighborhood in Virginia, and I'll just leave it un unspoken because I don't want anybody going there. But um my kids went to school there, the whole pyramid, elementary school, middle school, high school, et cetera, um, with some brief like in and out. But that this is where I lived for 20 years, right? And um a good friend of mine is a teacher, and she called me after that happened, and she teaches sixth grade, and she was so upset about it because kids in her school who are you know sixth graders, so they're like 12 years old, are aware of what's happening, just horribly aware that at any moment they could go home from school and their parents wouldn't be there. They could go outside and their parents could have been arrested at the crosswalk. And now, not only for them, but also for there are some kids in this neighborhood also who are undocumented themselves, right? Um, they themselves could be arrested in the school. And I think that made me so sad, like just deeply, deeply. Deeply sad.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

We're at this place where we target children.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

It hits us home.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

It really does.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

Uh what is the LJAC and is it the same as all the other legal aid places that we see around the country or is it separated from our typical uh legal aid offices that are mainly focusing on helping people with landlord tenant matters and uh family law matters, for instance?

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Yeah, it's Legal Aid Justice Center. Um, it is different. Um, I mean, they used to, they it's different in the sense that they no longer focus on um direct representation. It isn't to say that they don't engage in direct representation. So, like normally with legal aid, it's a bunch of lawyers that are there to help you um navigate things and so that you do have some some level of direct representation, like whether it's like going into landlord court or whether it is representing you in immigration court or whatever it is that their focus is. Legal aid Justice Center does a lot of different things that are not related just to immigration. I mean, they do work on landlord tenant issues, they do work on prison issues, um, they are, but they have transitioned over the last few years, I guess. I don't know how far back it goes, but it's been at least the last five to seven, they have transitioned away from um from direct representation and into more advocacy pieces. So they do work on the big picture I you know, big picture items. Um, I think there's a lot of there's more class action-y stuff, there's more um large-scale litigation with a you know, with a mind to change things. I don't know if you're familiar with that case. I think it's is it Suscana? No, Fluvana, the Fluvanna jail thing for the women. They were, you know, they were really instrumental in that case. Um, I came to LAJC many, many years ago um when we were working on community policing issues. And that's actually probably something that we're we are gonna see it. That was one of the executive orders as well. So the government can have memorandums of understanding with local and state agencies, you know, for purposes of working to pick people up and to like enforce immigration law. Um, and I was I that's when I met LAJC the first time around. So that was like 20 years ago or something like that, and they were working against that because obviously when when state and local police officers are working with immigration, it makes it hard for people to call the police, right? Like, so if I'm getting my if I'm getting beaten up by my husband, I might not call the police because even though this is a crime, I'm not really sure I want him to be deported, right? Right. Um, so so that sort of thing. So they were working on those policies. That's when I met them. And then I also discovered that they worked also on a lot of um illegal wage situations, um, meaning that people were not being paid where they were supposed to be paid, etc. Um, which also has something to do with immigrants, actually. Um a lot of a lot of people don't realize that we have legal workers, um, uh, for example, on the Eastern Shore picking crabs, for example, they're here on like an H2A or an H2B, um, and they live and they're they're in really inhumane conditions, notwithstanding the fact that they have visas. So they were working on that as well. So they do a bunch of things. Um, um, their focus is on justice, obviously, all the time. Um, and they believe strongly that there's a tie between justice and poverty. Um, and so it I would say that they are a bigger picture, they're more bigger picture now rather than smaller picture, right? Like I would consider myself a smaller picture person.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

What is LAJ doing for uh non-US citizens beyond what you said? And to what extent does LAJC make uh uh information resources and advocacy resources available on their website and elsewhere for people assisting immigrants and well c uh when I say immigrants, I mean anyone who's not a United States citizen and for immigrants themselves.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Well, right now I think the biggest focus is uh the big focus for almost every not and for any nonprofit organization, but particularly for LAJ is JC, is understanding like what these new policies mean and then putting uh putting information together that is palatable or you know e more easily understandable for everybody else, right? So their website's pretty active about it. I think one of the most important things, and this is a it's a sucky thing, but one of the most important things that um LAJC has is a rapid response toolkit for regular people. And what that what that's really all about is what happens if you are detained, what do you need to know? So there's the know your rights aspect in multiple languages, right? But then there's the if you have a loved one, let's say you have a mixed status family, like I said, then what do you need to know? What do you need to do? Well, actually, what you need to do is you have you need to have a stand like a standing guardian order, right? Because if you get detained, what's gonna happen to your children? So they have like that really laid out in Spanish and in English with samples, um, how to make emergence an emergency plan, which is I think really important. Um some powers of attorney, right? So in addition to who are your children gonna be with, who can have control of your money, because you need to, you know, if that happens and you get deported, who can sell your house, et cetera, et cetera. So I for for in for now, I think that's like a big press. Um also working with schools and other sensitive locations on how to create policies that um maintain some level of safety for people called students, parents, or practic uh parishioners, like whoever it is that we're talking about in the sensitive location thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

What you're talking about here, Ofa, is so great about self-empowerment, not throwing in the towel. Trump's not going to be president for more than four years. We are going to emerge out of this dark tunnel. Well, of course, if Vance then uh follows them, who knows there. Uh, but I mean, this is so important because you know that's one of the great things about Amnesty International. It might sound shrite, but one of their slogans, at least when I started with them, was it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. And we really have so many great uh, you know, people fighting for justice uh for immigrants and and others all over the country, including around here. And I love it, Ophelia, that uh, you know, I can join together with the uh the communists and and the radicals when I'm very much a non-communist and very much more a libertarian with a small L. And we can still join together to fight the common enemy and to help the common client. It is just so important. I'm with you on that, John. So, where does LAJC get its funding and how can people donate to the organization?

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Well, they get their funding from everywhere, right? Actually, the fun fact about LAJC is that one of the reasons the something else that sets them aside is that they do have to do a lot of development work. While they do receive some level of funding from Legal Services Corporation of Virginia, um, it is not it's not like super robust. They have to apply for grants like everyone else. And they are limited, they've always been limited in certain types of um federal funding because they do represent undocumented people, right? And so they have always had had that as a part of their, it's been an important part of their mission statement, um, even though they do so many other things outside the realm of immigration. Um, so I mean, obviously you can go to their website and donate to them, and I encourage everyone to do it because they do such great work. It's www.lagc.org. Um you can do that. I guess you could contact me directly if you wanted to, but um, I'm not on the fundraising team.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

So Ophelia, I don't think I've ever spoken to you for more than five or ten minutes. And here we've been having this fascinating conversation for over 50 minutes. I told you it would end in about two minutes. And the name of this show is Beat the Prosecution. So I want to focus on that about winning. Uh, I think already you've revealed a lot about uh how you win, which is that uh you're full of passion for your work. I don't think you see this legal work as some of these marketing lauras talk about that uh we just happen to be lawyers, but we're in it for the money. I don't think that that's your main driving goal. I mean, I think we want to earn income. You seem to have a nice place you're uh living in there. We gotta pay for it. So with that, uh what I just uh said in describing you, is that correct? And what do you do other than what you've talked about to win for your clients?

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Um, yeah, I mean I think about my I mean, I think being a lawyer is a real is much is a is a part of my identity. Um so I think advocating for people is is a large part of that. What do I do to win for my clients? I mean, I think prep I mean it sounds trite also. I mean, I think it's important to be really prepared, right? To understand your case um very well and to understand the nuances of it, um, particularly in immigration. Um, and I think that I'm not unlike you. I mean, I think in particular in immigration, in immigration court, um you you really have to put the burden back on the government, right? They they have their job to do. Um, and I think it's important to hold them to their burden, um, whether that means demonstrating alienage, whether that means demonstrating that your client is deportable. I mean, you can concede that and move on to the relief stage, but um, depending on the circumstances, I don't do, you know, I don't want to do that. No, actually, it's your job. So if you're so confident about it, then you need to do it. Um, I think uh immigration changes all the time. So sadly, I do a lot of reading. And I think the I guess the biggest thing is that I harking back to what I said before, understanding. I think you gotta understand where your clients come from, and you gotta understand what their perspective is so that you can appropriately defend them and advocate for them, knowing you know where they're coming from. That's probably the biggest thing. And also, one last thing about that. I my clients are they're j they are my clients, right? And I I try not to cross that line because I think that can lead to a whole bunch of emotional trauma, um, right? Like getting too close to your clients, and so I really try to avoid that. But I am really deeply respectful of my clients and I'm deeply respectful of their time. I'm deeply respectful of their their of their goals and their dreams because immigration is all about that, right? One way or the other. It's all about finding safety and stability, and I really respect that in all of my clients, and and I think it's an important piece for me.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

If you'll indulge me on this, then uh if we go two more minutes, Ophelia. Uh, do you agree with me that a lot of people uh who come to the United States from uh uh tyrannical uh countries uh are often gonna lie to their uh lawyers because uh they're not sure if their lawyers are really just part of the same system uh that oppresses them and uh and aren't sure if their lawyers gonna rat them out, for instance, to the immigration authorities. And if that's true, what do you do to give your clients confidence that they can trust you?

SPEAKER_02 55:14

Yeah, I mean, I think there's some level of that that's involved, right? I mean, I'm not sure that they all think we're gonna rat them out, but I do think that there is a level of confidence. I mean, here's the thing too, right? There are things that people do where they and they're not sure about the legality of it or the rightness or the wrongness of it, right? Um, I don't think that these people that individuals in this situation aren't maliciously breaking the law, right? At the end of the day, you're here in the United States unlawfully. So there's a level of breaking the law, right? Um, that's involved. And there's a level of, you know, shame and sadness that they carry with it, that they carry with them, notwithstanding the fact that there was no other way, right? The system is so freaking broken that it creates a situation where people have to, you know, do questionable things. And by questionable things, I don't mean like kill or rape or or steal, right? It's just like, okay, I came to the United States you know unlawfully because there was no other way. And I think they really hate telling, you know, people that they respect that, right? And so I think that is an issue. And I often will tell people, like, listen, I understand that there may be things that have happened that you felt like you had to do. It's not my job to judge you, it's my job to help you. And I can't help you unless you tell me everything, right? Everything that you say to me is confidential. Everything that you say to me may or may not be important to your case, but if I don't know it, then it's probably important, then I'm not gonna be able to do my best job. And I can't care more about your case than you do. So I need you to be, I need you to be with me on this. I mean, we're either in a team or we're not.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Well, I'm gonna tell you, Ophelia, one thing that I think helps my uh Spanish-speaking clients who speak little or no English, uh uh feel confidence in me as just something as simple as, I am gato, cat. And you're just out of calling me that on our radio show, say stuff like, uh, gato, ¿qué tipo de casa de casos haces marks and cats? What types of cases do we do? And I have so many uh Spanish-speaking clients from uh you know backgrounds, or maybe they didn't go far in school, maybe they have very simple jobs, who could never bring themselves to call me John, but are just delighted calling me gato. And something as simple as that just opens up the doors. I am L Gato, and it just goes from there.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Well, that was I mean, I can see how that works for you having a nickname, but I don't have one, so I don't get to, I mean, I just get to be Dr. Cita or you know, Licenciada, or a I mean, I guess I'm the little lawyer. That happens a lot, right? I get abogada, but I get a lot of like little lawyer, and I don't know what that means. I think they're talking about my height.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

That's what I assumed. Because uh, you might come in uh not a tall package, but you pack your own Ophelia. Please, this is your opportunity to give your final words to say anything you want to the audience you've not already said, and please remind them the name of your law firm and your website, because I highly recommend Ophelia and her law firm.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

Well, I don't know, not feeling the spot. Um I mean, I guess, I mean, you've already said all the good things, right? Which is that, you know, and I I think it's interesting. I guess I'm gonna take heart from reminding myself of uh what you said about amnesty. You're right. It's better to light a candle than it is to to curse, uh, which is something that I've really struggled with, if I if I'm gonna be honest, I've really struggled with that um in the last couple of months and just struggled with finding my place again because I have felt that I, you know, that you know, this I f I have felt fatigued, um, you know, fatigued from the battle. Um, so I'm I'm grateful to you for reminding me that I I have to light that candle, that that's my job. Um and you know, I want to remind everybody of exactly what we talked about. Exercise your rights if you can and if you have them. I I can't emphasize that enough. Um, you know, stay aware of your surroundings. And I honestly, in all circumstances, you gotta get a lawyer. And obviously, if you have a criminal defense issue and you need and you are an undocumented person, you should definitely call John because John calls me. And, you know, so I know he cares, and that's a really important part of having it's a really important part of having representation, is having lawyers that care and understand that there are multiple factors at play here, including and not limited to your immigration status. And um, and I know that John does. Um having said that, of course, we do as well. Um, I am I practice in uh if for immigration purposes, I practice in all the Virginia courts, so that's our uh Annandel Sterling, Richmond and Falls Church, and Maryland, which is the Baltimore and Hyattesville. So that encompasses basically the DMB area. Um again, it's our firm's name is Calderon Sewin, and the website is www.calderonseguin.com. So, and I'm also super grateful to you, John, for having me on. I enjoyed this. I learned a lot about you too.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

I'm grateful for you coming on as well, Ophelia. Ophelia Calderon, thank you so much for joining. This is John Katz. I'm a criminal defense and DUI defense Laura in Northern Virginia. This show is called Beat the Prosecution, and there's a reason for that. There's no other choice. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

Thank you for listening to this week's episode from Beat the Prosecution. This is a regular podcast giving people a leg up against police investigations and prosecutions. Nothing discussed on our media sources, such as our podcast or website, is legal advice. John Katz only provides legal advice to current clients or to individuals who have paid for a consultation. We welcome you contacting us via email at info at beatheprosecution.com by calling our office at 703 383 1100 or texting us at 571 406 7268.